Chronicles of the ‘Demoness’

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19 Aug 2007 05:31 #8205 by Synthesis
That was a lovely example of pure twinkery, and it's exactly the sort of thing that frustrates me.

You attacked a braman, in broad daylight, in a populated area, because you knew there weren't any PCs around to stop you, completely disregarding the virtual population of bramen who would have witnessed the crime and reported you to the relevant authorities. More than likely, there would have been virtual bramen around to stop you from committing the crime in the first place.

It's rather sad, considering your previous logs were fairly good. I'd work a little on respecting the virtual population of the world, if you want to improve your roleplay. An encounter like that would definitely earn a bad IC rating from me.

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19 Aug 2007 07:13 #8206 by Blakat

Posted by: Synthesis Posted on: Today at 6:31am
That was a lovely example of pure twinkery, and it's exactly the sort of thing that frustrates me.

You attacked a braman, in broad daylight, in a populated area, because you knew there weren't any PCs around to stop you, completely disregarding the virtual population of bramen who would have witnessed the crime and reported you to the relevant authorities. More than likely, there would have been virtual bramen around to stop you from committing the crime in the first place.

It's rather sad, considering your previous logs were fairly good. I'd work a little on respecting the virtual population of the world, if you want to improve your roleplay. An encounter like that would definitely earn a bad IC rating from me.


Synthesis, I appreciate your comments... sounds like this might turn into a debate...
This was not a city, it happened in a manor on an island. I'd say my character properly threatened the NPC in the room (Oal) and took into account the others in the manor by acting quickly and dragging the body to a quiet and abandoned room. Seems your main concern rests entirely upon the idea of vNPC's about, my impression of that specific location is that it's not populated by vNPC's, maybe this impression is our only disagreement. The last thing I want to do is discourage people, but some times it seems that when people 'get the bad news' which might represent their character being killed or taken advantage of in some way, they feel discouraged and suddenly want to rate the one commiting these actions poorly even if it was done 'properly'.

Thoughts?

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19 Aug 2007 10:52 #8207 by Synthesis
Okay, so you're inside a braman manor.

Where were the house servants? Where were the owners of the manor? Is this a haunted house or something? I'm assuming if someone's wealthy enough to own a manor, they have a small army of people helping to run the place. Do you honestly have enough IC knowledge of this manor to be able to make judgment calls about waltzing in, ransacking the place, and murdering the inhabitants?

Is your character planning on never again returning to the Isles? You made no attempt to disguise yourselves and you left witnesses alive. You apparently didn't sneak in or try to hide the fact you were there. Once you accomplished the mugging, what was your escape plan? To dive into the ocean and hope nobody was a better swimmer than you? What if the servants had raised the alarm and come after you with pitchforks and kitchen knives? Was your friend seriously prepared to murder an entire manorial staff?

Think about the situation clearly: would your character be willing to spoil her reputation in an area simply to get a look inside some braman's bag? Would you be willing to be executed for attempted murder and/or armed robbery over a few coins?

I seriously doubt it. In fact, what probably went through your mind was, "Oh, look, a newbie PC with no other PCs around who aren't friendly to me. Easy. I better try to make it look well-played so I don't look like a total jerk." Well, let's apply a little categorical imperative here: would you honestly want every PC in the game to operate on the same principle you've just demonstrated? That is, would you want someone to come after you simply because they have a friend with them and you're all by yourself? If that's the case, we might as well be playing Carrion Fields instead of Accursed lands.

Hell, I have lots of friends who play other MUDs. I could ask them all to log in and we could practice for a few months and we'd probably be able to annihilate half the playerbase before long, if you seriously want to operate on the "let's ignore vNPCs and do whatever we want, because the code allows us to get away with it" principle. We'd fire off the coolest emotes you've ever seen before we twinkishly slew you.

Not only that, but consider the domino effects of your actions: What do you think this player is going to do from now on? Sit around and blithely wait for the next jerk to come along to take his or her stuff? Doubtful. They're either a) going to quit playing after it happens a few times or b) get wise and spam-train in the wilderness until they can defend themselves. Next time you attack someone who's only got a newbie knife, it might be someone who's been knife-fighting bears and tigers in vicious deep-woods deathmatches for the past five IC years.

In short, you weren't making the game more interesting. You weren't even acting realistically. You were being a jerk, plain and simple. You can attempt to justify it however you like, but you'll look a lot more intelligent if you accept the fact that you made a mistake, apologize for it, and move on.

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19 Aug 2007 15:59 #8208 by BaddieX51
Synthesis you are quite simply flaming and trolling right now. If you want an example of twinkery I can look through my logs and see if I can find a time a man has run into the room and charged at me with a sword. This however, was not twinkery. In this particular location I would be forced to say that if there are vNPCs in the manor, they are more likely to be tending to the huge and massive garden as well as the many rooms rather than sitting in the library of all places and making noise to disturb those that are studying there. Regardless, the whole event was well roleplayed and if you hadn't noticed, the character is meant to be a 'jerk' and is quite obviously a thief. If you are suggesting that no one can play a thief because you think its twinkery, then you are sorely mistaken...

Before you say 'oh that wasn't theft because they didn't use the pilfer skill' then I'll ask quite bluntly, why are you here? This is a role playing MUD correct? Alright, well when someone roleplays out a theft, not a murder I'd like to note as the braman didn't die, you get pissed off because it was roleplayed and you consider it twinkery? If you haven't been paying attention to this thread and only decided to take a look at the one last post where something physical is done to accomplish the goal... then thats your own fault. But I can honestly say that the character is well played out in her role as a sneaky thief who can often reveal herself to be a 'scumbag' of sorts. As well, in a braman manor, while a servant or two may have noticed something... do you really expect a bunch of bramans to raise an alarm and charge out with pitchforks? Bramans? I mean, really? It is quite obvious the character doesn't care all that much to return to the isles since they're leaving a braman who has already threatened to go to some sort of authority (the council) about them should they attack or be violent, and behold they did. Yet they still left her alive. Not twinkery at all if you ask me. But I've got at least one good eye. ;)

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19 Aug 2007 21:51 #8209 by Jinkarto
Synthesis. You. Are. A. Role. Playing. GOD!


Reading over the log, I have to say one thing.


You expect waaaay too much from people. It reminds me of a story of a woman, she looked pretty good. She was walking home on well lit night and a man, a deranged fan, pulls out a saw edged blade and started slashing up her face. She screamed, and cried, and yelled, and nobody helped her.


Over 100 people witnessed it, most of them watching from their windows. Nobody called the cops. They sat there, and for the better part of an hour, watched this man go to town on her face. When he was finally done with the mutilation, he left her in the street to bleed to death.

Halfway through, a car pulled up. Two men got out of the car, walked over to the scene of the attempted murder, took in an eyeful, and got right back in the car and drove away.


You can't expect people to actually HELP someone. Honestly, why would I put myself in the situation where I could possibly risk DEATH, where someone would END MY LIFE, for someone I don't even know?


Furthermore, in AL, humans often call Bramen "spineless" or "quill necked". It's a RARE exception that one would actually have the strength to pick up a weapon, and injure someone with it. Lore wise, they get sick from the smell of dead meat, which is why they can't eat it. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say they don't' like the sight of blood.



The braman character could have avoided injury by simply GIVING UP HER GEAR. But, no. Rely on the VNPCS.


Some people just don't have common sense.


The scene was well played, and nobody's character died. I doubt anyone is angry with the performance.

Synthesis, if you don't like the PK aspect of the game, why do you play AL?

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19 Aug 2007 22:29 #8210 by Cobain
It's clear to me why the victim didn't want to give up her sack. It's newbie food, yes. Fish. In AL, fish = meat. Braman don't start with meat as a newbie food because they can't eat it. The victim was an Aquaepura attempting to keep her identity secret.

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19 Aug 2007 23:07 #8211 by Synthesis
As far as bramen being completely spineless, I have a hard time believing that, realistically, this race has set up a civilization without having some way to protect themselves. Otherwise, bands of marauding humans would have taken over the place -long- ago. I assume they have some sort of native guard force and law enforcement. (The staff have stated elsewhere that bramen are not typically pacifists.)

Now, a manor on an island is bound to have some sort of guard force, set up to prevent exactly the sort of thing that occurred in this scene: marauding humans (or others) coming in to ransack and pillage. If the manor was completely unguarded, it would've been taken over by bandits or others, or would've long since been abandoned. Since it's clearly not completely abandoned, I think it's safe to assume that there ought to be some sort of guard force.

The fact that there aren't any hard-coded guards around the place is not an indication that the place is up for grabs and completely defenseless. This is exactly the sort of situation where it is your ethical responsibility as a member of this gaming community to take into consideration the non-coded aspects of the gameworld before you blindly leap into action.

On another note: good emoting does not equal good roleplaying! You can throw out flowery emotes all day long, but if you're ignoring the game environment, you're not roleplaying, you're engaging in a creative writing exercise.

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20 Aug 2007 16:38 #8212 by Blakat
First of all, there is no need to ever say anything remotely close to “why do you even play this game”; that is harsh much like your initial post Synthesis.  I really do try to respect the ‘environment’ but you have no idea what my character did after the log.  Maybe, just maybe, she did go and end the lives of the witnesses.  Maybe, just maybe, she did go and threaten peoples lives or spread that it was someone else who committed the action.  You can’t assume you know every dynamic of a player log by reading only what is posted.

I think you do bring up many good points, so did Baddie and Jink.  I agree with Baddie here, sometimes people play characters that commit actions such as murder, theft, back stabbing, swindling, etc..  What is this game without a healthy balance to all this, sure, those actions are discouraging when you are the victim, but you can’t say it’s ‘twinkery’ just because it just might offend someone?  If you character concept, character goals, character plot supports any one of these things I say go for it.  If I am the victim next time, I’ll proudly die to those intentions.

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20 Aug 2007 17:36 #8213 by Synthesis
Again, you've completely missed my point. I'm not calling it twinkery because it might have offended someone. I'm calling it twinkery because it was POOR ROLEPLAYING. If you want to be a thieving, murdering scumbag, fine, but at least have the decency to play it realistically, because it is FAR TOO EASY to abuse the code on this game to your advantage. Where code limitations are in effect (lack of NPCs, lack of law enforcement code, lack of coded reasonable in-character repercussions for your actions), it is up to us as players to NOT cross the line of realism simply because we can.

Were there elements of the scene that were good? Sure. However, even people who fail tests get a -few- questions correct. The fact that there were some portions of the log that were "okay" does not make the entire scene "okay."

(And by the way, I was not the victim in this scene. However, I have been the victim of -numerous- scenes -exactly- like this one. I don't have sour grapes over losing characters: on Armageddon I've played nearly 70 different characters over the years. The problem is losing characters due to poorly-roleplayed scenes initiated by people who are blatantly abusing code limitations to further their own ends.)

If nobody has anything else substantive to add to this discussion, this will be my last post on the matter.

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20 Aug 2007 20:17 #8214 by Musica
I thought it was a good log.

Basic premise: Thieves looking for coin. They try to trick the victim (decent story, coulda used more details, I suppose) and fail. They can either give up (not likely) or use force to get their way. Being two on one, they went for force. The person whose perspective this log is even made a point to have Dage keep watch on Oal, just in case. I figure it follows logically.

If I'd been the braman/aqua, I'd have just run, honestly, but that's my reaction, not hers.

It was a real world sort of situation, this kind of thing happens every day. People won't necessarily intervene, since they're afraid for themselves. I guess I've always been of the opinion that Oomph is the manor's owner and she has a few people like Peeve and Oal around, but not really enough to, say, make an organized rush against the two violent thieves. It seems like too peaceful of a place to need its own guard. That's just my opinion, of course.

/Musica's two cents

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