What's  Keeping/Preventing you from the citie

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20 Jun 2006 17:33 #1857 by Gen_Ming
We could just add a garden in the middle of all cities. A garden with a well, some fruit trees, sticks/branches/grass/rock to be pick up and I will bet it will become a gathering place.

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20 Jun 2006 17:40 #1858 by ignatius
don't forget a lamp or bonfire or other lightsource

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20 Jun 2006 21:41 #1859 by asmoth
Agreed on the lamp thing.  I don't care how far back you go in time or ages.  Almost every town had lightposts, even if they were just lit by fires, and the fact that the shops which are open 24/7 don't have light sources so you can read their signs and such is simply put.... RETARDED!

Always your sweetheart

Asmoth

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10 Sep 2006 14:18 #1860 by zap
One could also argue that shops would not even be open 24/7, what may be cool there is if shopes closed a little after dark and opened doors again just before dawn. Anybody looking to buy / sell from there while the door was shut had to wake the shopkeep and put up with higher prices to buy, and lower prices for selling (i think that would be sweet!)

I am also a big fan of Gen Ming's idea, having a crafting area in the towns, with all manner of sticks/branches/rocks/water/light/thelistgoeson :)
And i like it for two reasons A: you could not only craft there at night, with friends and such or even a place to meet others, like a gathering point.
B: when found by a newbie, it could be a great place for them to not only learn the tools and things needed to make things, without feeling a need to ask on newbie (not that there is anything wrong with that). But also to see other crafters and learn what can be made through their own observations, i.e Imagin being a newbie, and you have no idea what to do, you somehow manage to drag your backside into this area half dead from a housecat hunt, and dieing of thirst. At first you are taken aback to see all the big scary people, but then you see the fire, somebody playing an instrument, laughter and smiles all round. You can get a nice cool drink right before a big strong hunter drags in a fresh kill, and you learn to skin and butcher there and then. A more expirenced whittler could talk to you about your wounds, then show you how to whittle up some crude weapons, and another show you how to use them.

And as fast as that, the learning curve that seems to put so many newbies off AL, has been defused, no IC barrier has been broken and within a week you have that very newbie, helping to train some other poor sod that chances upon this place of refuge on a cold lonely night.

thats my thoughts, anyway. Peace.

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01 Nov 2006 05:35 #1861 by khaos

To me that sounds really great, I would probably spend much more of my time in the city if it were, well, worth it. Like it's been said, pretty much everything is in the wild, while, not much is in the city. If there were a spot to congregate in the city that would provide necessary craft items, that would be great. Perhaps, if it were possible to make a living in the city that would make more of us want to stay there. So much time and effort seems to have been put into the wilderness, while the cities seem more like an afterthought.

Out of everything said so far I think that a social garden type spot and being able to make a living (i.e. money) would be the best reasons for staying in a city/town/etc. With houses a close second.

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03 Oct 2007 05:48 #1862 by Vampir
6,000,000 rooms on surface, god knows how many under ground and water... not a single lockable, personal space? Maybe the reason people are heading into wilderness so far away is that they want a place to call home and to feel like one, relatively safe to keep their hard-earned valuables, sleep, invite friends, or just live?

Stables are there, but no safe place for an expensive mount unless again, a remote location in wilderness. I can't understand why would giving personalized homes to players be such a big issue. I believe much more players would be attracted to game if they had a chance of actually having a home. I mean, half of all playerbase already has a home, just they are all the same boring wood cabin with no doors or windows, used only as a landmark. Most of them are furnished (all with feather bed, small wooden table and wooden chair) in a pathetic attempt to make half-home out of it. I cant say i know a person who actually lives in one of those.

I have seen a few houses around Terrinor that belong to NPCs or are abandoned or vacant, they have various features and number of rooms. They make wonderful scenery, they make civilization on Terrinor feel realistic, and they certainly add to playing experience. Far better to stumble upon one of those than to walk through woods seeing cabincabincabincabincottagecabincabin... There are also wonderful streets in for example Forest Heart, like poor quarters, that are actually empty space..the space is taken, but could be used much more wisely.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we were to provide our home description (with some background maybe) for approval, upon which we would be granted player housing in a form of some sheds deep in swamps for Goblins, some underground pits or caves for Moloks, a fine house made of bricks somewhere on the Isles for a Braman experimenter, tree-top cabins, underwater bubbles... actually only a theme would be a limit to what kind of "house" a player can have. There are many details that would be discussed about, which could maybe resolved by a separate thread. I would love to see opinions on this from as many people as possible.

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03 Oct 2007 16:33 #1863 by Alanzus
Well, yea that is a wonderful idea.
Just, that would be a huge project, and alot of changes.
It would take forever with the current staff.

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04 Oct 2007 03:43 #1864 by Ritor
Okey, I 'simply' dont understand what do lockable doors have ANYTHING to do with staying in cities. They seem to be entirely unrelated. Unless the 'main' idea is to always have an available 'safe' spot in the city, should trouble come. This I understand it, if you're being chased, you can go home and lock your doors, instead of going many leagues out into the wilderness. Safe spot to sleep in, safe spot to do ... whatever. But dont the Inns kind of allow this already? Or are the doors too easy to picklock ?

My personal opinions coincide with some statements made in here. No method of survival or prospering if playing a city based character. Going into the wilderness is practically enforced by skills, be it crafting,hunting,fighing. Ironically the only skill set that encourages people to come to the cities are thief skills, but that just goes untill the thief messes up, the victim shouts and the thief runs off from the city before being caught.

So ... same old story really, make venturing into the wilderness a 'profitable', but 'dangerous's endevour. So far, I found cities more dangerous due to ermh ... an occasional PC. How to do that, i'm sure have been discussed numerious times. Harsh weather, scarcity of food, the works.

I ran a character who due to ... rather odd reasons refused to eat 'any' uncooked foods. So no hawkshelf, and no raw meat. God was that tough to do, needing to buy food from the cities. Fun though ...

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04 Oct 2007 11:46 #1865 by meemo
This issue of why players are not frequenting the cities is multi-factored. You can't look at it as a single issue without bringing into it all the others. However, this is basically a re-iteration of what Ladyimp said in Jan and Jun/06, and an agreement with WickedWicker's reply #17 in this thread.

Why do players go to the cities/villages?

1 - to sell their crafted item(s)
2 - to buy an item(s)
3 - to deposit money/withdraw money (if bank is available)
4 - to read the bulletin board(s)
5 - to check for mail
6 - to study in a library (if available)

Why do players leave the cities/villages?

1 - to hunt animals for food/skins
2 - to gather herbs/plants for food/curative/crafting
3 - to craft with wood/stone/grass
4 - to explore wilderness for adventure or knowledge
5 - to practice combat skills against animals (or other players)
6 - to gather ores or gems in the underworld

The reasons to go into the cities are fleeting as it doesn't take long to do any of those tasks (excepting perhaps studying), but to go hunting, or practice combat, or gathering, or crafting - these take a longer time to do. Also, with the exceptions of those crafters who require city stationed items to do their craft, the rest can do them anywhere, or must seek out the wilderness in order to do them.

Here's where the other issues come into play.

- If items crafted were only able to be sold to other players, it might alleviate some of the 'solo' play by causing crafters and their customers to have to come together.
- If hunting were more dangerous or harder to do, it might cause players to have to rely on others/make a hunting party in order to take down a prized/larger animal. This can also be applied to crafting.
- The size of the world in conjunction with a smaller playerbase can prohibit player interactions.

On the subject of lockable houses, I have seen muds with this type of thing have issues with 'closeted' groups of players, rp'ing away from others. They're rp'ing - but it isn't inclusive of others, just more exclusive. So I am not convinced a lockable house is the way to bring players back to the cities.

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04 Oct 2007 17:29 #1866 by Lunar_Parhelion
These are some good points, but I think something that would also need to be resolved is the game's "solo-ibility"; it's far too easy to make a character, and then set about learning every craft and skill you'd ever need to function with that character, plus whatever skills you run into but would be "cool" to have. Take your average hunter -- with any playing time, this character may not only know how to skin, butcher, fight, fish, and shoot a bow, but he's savvy with multiple languages, can blow glass, make large furniture, steal, carve stone, sew, smith his own swords, and manufacture en masse his own arrows (among so many other things).

When I've talked about this with other people, what I've been handed back was that people just do not want to cooperate with or need one another. In fact, many players who I have encouraged to try and help with a simulated economy by playing focused craftsmen or go looking to buy a product rather than make it themselves tell me that it's impossible because other players either refuse to buy or even haggle, or treat their own crafts like trash (flooding the world with one type of item). I've even had some players tell me they were mocked or called stupid for even attempting this.

So long as this is the attitude, there's always going to be a problem keeping players within cities outside of just putting NPC or coded goods (banks, libraries, etc) in them.

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