Your Privacy and You

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30 Oct 2007 22:28 #1762 by Lunar_Parhelion
Excluding or including sexual roleplay, do you feel that any silent player-watching done by creators is an invasion of your privacy? What if actions were taken as a result of that player-watching, which may lead up to things that include (but not limited to): positive or negative playernotes; higher chance of getting nailed with a botcheck; environmental roleplay (that distant chittering you hear in the forest at night); totem play (minor GM-controlled characters that share in a mini-storyline with your character); spontaneous involvement in upcoming or ongoing major plotlines; spontaneous endangerment of a character; physical rewards (such as skills or stats) given for consistant recognizeable play; and possible death of a character.

Do you feel the game would, overall, benefit from GMs or roleplaying creators to be able to watch players over time?

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31 Oct 2007 05:03 #1763 by nothing
Replied by nothing on topic Re: Your Privacy and You
Personally, I believe that silent player-watching should be done. It'd give everyone more of a "push" in the right direction. If you know there is a slim chance that you are going to be observed for whatever reason, then less players would bot and more players would have something to do. Especially with the playerbase being as low as it has been, it'd give everyone an opportunity (even the slightest bit) to do something more with themselves.

I don't know about the consistency with it. Should someone be being observed constantly? No, of course not. But, if someone(GM) were to just "peek" in for a quick moment to see if they were "needed" in any way and realized that they could make this a better situation for the player in any way, be it roleplaying opportunities or not, then I think it'd work.

It's not so much about privacy, but about following rules. If you sign up to test here, you should be more than willing to accept anything that comes along with that. If there is some chance that -you- are abusing something or cheating in some way, then something should be done.

Also, it'd give GMs much more of an opportunity to pass information along - statistics if you will.
The stats would (could) include anything from favorite types of weapons among the playerbase, to favorite areas, favorite hangouts, favorite things to do (maybe even not a favorite, but if someone is constantly working at something, you get the idea) and lots could be built from this.

If a GM were to see that more and more players are visiting said town than others, then maybe something could be done to spruce up that particular environment that they were visiting, or fix up the OTHER places that weren't being used as much. (If more players are in town A as opposed to town B, town A could get more things implemented into it, more activities, more NPCs, more diverse NPC-shops, etc. and the same for town B, maybe town B could be built up to be something that would ATTRACT players.) Even with weapons, NPCs, actions, verbs, *motes, etc. Everything could be built up either way to attract more people to do more things instead of "going with the flow". I'd be more willing to visit other places that my char might not visit if more suitable pieces and parts were added to certain nooks and crannies.

I know it wouldn't have to be done with silent-player watching, but it'd certainly be more attainable information if GMs were granted non-restricted rights to observe the happenings of the game they are taking any part in making a better place.

Maybe it is just me, but as far as it goes, I'm in favor.


WE'RE COMING TO GET YOU BARBARA!

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31 Oct 2007 15:16 #1764 by Blakat
Replied by Blakat on topic Re: Your Privacy and You
I don’t mean to step on toes here (or maybe I do) but I believe we have voted on a similar issue before. I mean, how many polls need to be done for our trusty admin to understand that the old ways are fading out and the new ways are coming in, people change, games change, styles change, what’s popular changes and we need to adapt to that change and not bury our feet in suborn opinions. I ask that everyone ACTUALLY take into consideration the ‘popular demand’ here and make some changes. Lets figure out a way to make this work for the creators and players, so that we can keep the good creators and players which seems to be filtering out as we burden constant closed minded restrictions.

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31 Oct 2007 21:24 #1765 by Lunar_Parhelion

I don’t mean to step on toes here (or maybe I do) but I believe we have voted on a similar issue before.  I mean, how many polls need to be done for our trusty admin to understand that the old ways are fading out and the new ways are coming in, people change, games change, styles change, what’s popular changes and we need to adapt to that change and not bury our feet in suborn opinions.  I ask that everyone ACTUALLY take into consideration the ‘popular demand’ here and make some changes.  Lets figure out a way to make this work for the creators and players, so that we can keep the good creators and players which seems to be filtering out as we burden constant closed minded restrictions.


Sometimes it helps to SEE a number, bald and without any connection to any other topic (this thread deals ONLY with character-watching and what that means in terms of privacy), than to hear it second-hand or thrown up as an unbacked statistic.

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31 Oct 2007 23:04 #1766 by Aesuna
Replied by Aesuna on topic Re: Your Privacy and You
The whole time I've played Accursed Lands, the idea of 'player privacy' has confused me. When I first began playing, I always assumed I was being (or at any time could be) watched. It was always a 'given' for me. This wasn't my game, I was playing it. I assumed there would always be higher-ups keeping an eye on me to make sure I was behaving myself, and being secret witnesses to my character's solo RP, my character's thoughts, the interactions between my character and others. My audience, you could say.

The Creators of AL don't know who you are outside of the game, what you look like, what you're doing, what you're thinking. That should be kept private, but in the game, everything you do is subject to 'help ownership', isn't it? What I'd really like to know is -why- someone would want privacy? What are you doing that you don't want Creators to see? I guess I could understand sexual roleplay, in a way, but if it's so graphic and/or private, why are you doing it on AL in the first place?

Besides that, the only reason I could see someone wanting privacy is so they won't be caught cheating. Please, somebody, prove me wrong.

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04 Nov 2007 22:13 #1767 by Haley
Replied by Haley on topic Re: Your Privacy and You
It's my personal opinion that it's not an issue of "player privacy" but rather "right or wrong" concerning the actions of the player. I once read a book that gave advice on a different topic which said, "Don't do anything you wouldn't want to tell your grandmother about." The point is still relevant here.

The internet is a public place. Don't do anything you wouldn't want the public to know about. This includes botting, mudsex, twinking, what have you.

It's noted in several places on the game that playing here is a priviledge and not a right. Therefore, with that priviledge come certain restrictions.

I see nothing wrong with the creators peeking in, or even observing other players. This isn't your personal game.
A good analogy, in my opinon, is that you are a guest in someone's home, and as such, you should respect their home and the people in it. You pretty much lose "privacy" when you walk in their house.

Just my two cents.

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07 Nov 2007 04:15 #1768 by Shadowslay
Replied by Shadowslay on topic Re: Your Privacy and You
The Conservative Traditionalist approach ('this is how we've done things and so they are better, and we shall continue to do things that way and others will either deal or leave') doesn't work in AL. In a world that is changing and in a setting whose measure of success is contingent on the enjoyment/participation of others, that sort of approach is the easiest way to slowly siphon the life out of something like a MUD.

If the powers that be care, even in the slightest, about what the players think or want, they will pay attention to and consider these results.

If not,
Then I suppose we've all been under a fraud of sorts.

(Edit: At least one person disagrees with the norm. Whoever you are, speak up if this is important to you. Don't be the silent minority).

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07 Nov 2007 16:54 #1769 by Mark
Replied by Mark on topic Re: Your Privacy and You

The Conservative Traditionalist approach ('this is how we've done things and so they are better, and we shall continue to do things that way and others will either deal or leave') doesn't work in AL. In a world that is changing and in a setting whose measure of success is contingent on the enjoyment/participation of others, that sort of approach is the easiest way to slowly siphon the life out of something like a MUD.

If the powers that be care, even in the slightest, about what the players think or want, they will pay attention to and consider these results.

If not,
Then I suppose we've all been under a fraud of sorts.

(Edit: At least one person disagrees with the norm. Whoever you are, speak up if this is important to you. Don't be the silent minority).


I don't have a conservative bone in my body.  I do things because they make sense based on experience.  I'm quite confused why you would attribute those running AL to having this kind of philosophy as we are making changes actively which you have seen.  Not understanding the value of something does not necessarily equate to it being bad, it might mean that you don't have enough information to understand.

The fact that our player numbers are dwindling shows that we are doing something wrong.  We used to be at around 140 a day or so when we had minimal creator involvement or policing, and now we are at 40.  There are various reasons for this, some of which include machine issues and lag, but those issues have been resolved for some time.

What we need to do is redirect all the yammer yammer bla bla yackety yack energy and focus it on getting the player numbers up.  I sometimes feel like I am repeating this until I am blue in the face as I'm not sure that the message is getting though.  I don't hear anyone go, "Hey, he's right!" or anything of that sort.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, these are good questions being asked here, and it's good to see the opinions out there, and you are all making good points and so on, but we are at kind of a critical point right now and teetering somewhat and it's time to make it a priority to raise playerbase and leave some of the other stuff for now.

I hope that makes sense

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08 Nov 2007 02:19 #1770 by Mark
Replied by Mark on topic Re: Your Privacy and You

The whole time I've played Accursed Lands, the idea of 'player privacy' has confused me. When I first began playing, I always assumed I was being (or at any time could be) watched. It was always a 'given' for me. This wasn't my game, I was playing it. I assumed there would always be higher-ups keeping an eye on me to make sure I was behaving myself, and being secret witnesses to my character's solo RP, my character's thoughts, the interactions between my character and others. My audience, you could say.

The Creators of AL don't know who you are outside of the game, what you look like, what you're doing, what you're thinking. That should be kept private, but in the game, everything you do is subject to 'help ownership', isn't it? What I'd really like to know is -why- someone would want privacy? What are you doing that you don't want Creators to see? I guess I could understand sexual roleplay, in a way, but if it's so graphic and/or private, why are you doing it on AL in the first place?

Besides that, the only reason I could see someone wanting privacy is so they won't be caught cheating. Please, somebody, prove me wrong.


The only reason I see for player privacy is that they might be interfered with in a way that will make the game less enjoyable for them. So at AL, only those creators who have proved they are truly committed to making the game more enjoyable for others by the extent of their works, are allowed to snoop in on players. Unfortunately, there are some that bend those rules and for that I apologize broadly to the community, but they are caught and dealt with. There are also those with proven good intentions, but inexperienced judgement who may construct an experience folks do not enjoy, and I ask that the players grant these folks some slack and help the creators to improve via feedback. There is a quality control system in place for GMs that should prevent bad experiences from happening, but unfortunately it has at times been bypassed, perhaps due to unbounded enthusiasm, but that's no excuse as enthusiam can exist full well within bounds.

But beyond this big picture reason, I think you are right so I see no need to prove you wrong.

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08 Nov 2007 02:23 #1771 by Mark
Replied by Mark on topic Re: Your Privacy and You

A good analogy, in my opinon, is that you are a guest in someone's home, and as such, you should respect their home and the people in it. You pretty much lose "privacy" when you walk in their house.

Just my two cents.


That's a very good analogy. :)

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