Meeting

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21 Dec 2004 09:10 #4426 by Luc
Replied by Luc on topic Re: Meeting
Not to get too partisan, but from my perspective, most of our current roleplayers always demonstrated some interest in roleplaying. I don't mind people trying and failing to roleplay well - much - but failing to make an effort is a huge and obvious red flag.

The boundaries of the group we call "twinks" are largely contiguous with those of the group I'd call "people that don't bother to make an effort".

But this is a tangent. I would offer suggestions for discussion, but this is supposed to be a forum for player suggestions... stay on topic, willya?

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21 Dec 2004 19:01 #4427 by Mark
Replied by Mark on topic Re: Meeting
There are two types of people who should not be here at Accursed Lands.

1) Those who are not interested in roleplaying. (Separating IC and OOC)

2) Those who criticize the roleplay of another without first doing what they can to educate them. (Preferably by pointing them to help files, or by writing help files).  These people are not interested in having a roleplaying game either.  They are simply interested in proving how much better of a roleplayer they are than others.

Both types are not helpful to the growth of our community.

I doubt very much that there are a lot of "clueless" people.  There are those that CHOOSE to not use the clues that have been laid out, and there are those that haven't seen or understood all the clues yet.

The former type should leave, the latter should be helped.  I have seen poor roleplayers and rulebreakers turn around and become mentors. (and creators)

Xotl

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21 Dec 2004 21:32 #4428 by Grendal
Replied by Grendal on topic Re: Meeting
I think we have 3 elements that make a good mud.

1. Creative code
2. Players.
3. Creators who "bother to make an effort" to create an enjoyable atmosphere for the players.

Players enjoy creative code.
Most players will continue to be a part of a mud that has an enjoyable atmosphere.
Some players will continue to be part of a mud because the basic framework of the mud suites their individual tastes and that is all they truly require.
Since Most players have left AL, then it is logical to say that the atmosphere in AL is no longer enjoyable.

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22 Dec 2004 11:08 #4429 by Gabocha
Replied by Gabocha on topic Re: Meeting
Grendal, I think that your last point may be influenced by a vocal majority. I continue to enjoy AL, and I'm sure that there are many others that enjoy it, but either don't use OOC means to communicate or don't know about this forum.

I like AL as it is. Naturally, I wish it was finished, but I like the way it's developing and I've always liked the attitude of discovery. I don't see how anyone could be disappointed at anything other than the lack of players at this point.

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24 Dec 2004 12:55 #4430 by khaos
Replied by khaos on topic Re: Meeting
[glb]That's not quite true Gabocha. We're all different, unique with our different personalities. Which means that we will all feel differently.

Some may agree, others might not.

A topic I would like to see touched upon, at the least, would be the learning curve of AL, and, perhaps, the documentation. Newbie-friendliness, erh, it's a bit vague for I'm not sure how to better explain it.
[/glb]


[glb]Edit:

Another thing would be learning skills.
Just discovering things is fine. But there are other methods as well. Perhaps some teachers could be hard-coded into the world. Well, not teachers per say, but rather an individual who knows something about whatever skill you are inquiring about.

ex:
You walk into Heard's Lil' Shoppe O' Wood.

Heard's Lil' Shoppe O' Wood

Obvious Exits: West
This place is well lit.
The area is vast and very clean. Shelves line the walls with many wooden objects lining them. The objects range from purly decorational to extremely useful.

Heard stands behind the counter, ready for business.
A lantern lights the dark corners of this room.


> ask Heard about butchering
You ask Heard about his knowledge of butchering.

Heard shakes his head and shrugs.

>ask Heard about smelting
You ask Heard about his knowledge of smelting.

Heard looks at you like you're crazy.

>hmm
You make a thoughtful noise.

>ask Heard about sewing.
You ask Heard about his knowledge of sewing.

Heard says, "I'm sorry but I don't anything about that."

>ask Heard about whittling (or maybe carpentry)
You ask Heard about his knowledge of whittling (or carpentry)

Heard smiles and nods his head.
Heard proceeds to explain to you the finer points of whittling.
...
...
etc
etc

Heard finishes teaching you about whittling.

You feel almost average at whittling.

>cheer
You cheer!

This would be a better way to rp learning something. More interaction.

Also, perhaps you could be able to look things up under a certain skill once you've learned to make something successfully in conjunction with said skill.

Also also, reading a book would not only yield: you study... blah blah blah, etc. It would also mention some of the things that you can make. I mean you can't make certain things until you're more proficient in said skill, right?

I can go out and buy a humungo chunk of clay, doesn't mean I'll the statue of David in my house t'marraw, or even a (decent) replica of the pyramids which I know how they look etc. Same goes with the smarty pants who imparts some of his knowledge. He would mention some things while teaching.

Heard mentions that you can whittle *cough* with the right tools.

Heard says something about whittling a *cough*.

so on

Oooh! Oooh! With a teacher sys thing, a bard could be one to teach musical skills! That would rock! So, uh, yes... my two farthings.
[/glb]

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24 Dec 2004 21:43 #4431 by ignatius
Replied by ignatius on topic Re: Meeting
do we need to rsvp? something has come up and i won't be able to make it, but wouldn't it be best to get some idea of how many are going to be there?

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25 Dec 2004 00:23 #4432 by Kuzman
Replied by Kuzman on topic Re: Meeting
I'm assuming from this thread that Kugra isn't going to be available for the event, so I'll just state my assumptions and we can work from there.

Random-ish comments, working backwards...

~Ignis
I don't think RSVP is necessary, as there isn't really anything that'd have to be done by way of preparation aside from creating a channel. I suspect the idea was that if you couldn't be there, you should arrange to contact him so that your arguments and opinions could be presented in absentia.

~Khaos
This is perhaps none of my business, but Gabocha never said there weren't any differences of opinion; he simply said he felt there were probably more people satisfied with the MUD than dissatisfied, at least as regards features.

~Grendal
Congratulations. Your obligatory less-than-subtle digs at the staff do not go unappreciated.

~Xotl
You seem a tad over-optimistic, to me.

At the very least, people who go out of their way to make the game unpleasant for others strike me as "people who should not be here".

I doubt very much that there are a lot of "clueless" people. There are those that CHOOSE to not use the clues that have been laid out, and there are those that haven't seen or understood all the clues yet.

The former type should leave, the latter should be helped.

The former type doesn't usually leave on their own, which I would guess to have been the inspiration of Corannie and Virago's posts.

As for the reformation comment, I won't deny that it's possible, but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

~Slayer

If things had been organized properly from the start, there wouldn't be any bad players to deal with.

Thanks.

If the players and creators worked together, maybe one day the game will be finished.

It'd probably suffice if we stopped working against one another.

The difficulty can not be ammended by excercising xenophobic tendencies

Possibly true, but you appear to be countering an argument that no one has presented. "exercising xenophobic tendencies" would mean excluding newbies and outsiders.

Yeah, I'm a nitpicky sort of guy.

~Zaq
I think expectations would be a very good topic, if we can expect candidness from all involved. I'm not sure how likely that is, but it's worth a shot.


Anyway. Those're my 2¢.

- K

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27 Dec 2004 06:13 #4433 by jshoelessj
Replied by jshoelessj on topic Re: Meeting
A couple of things (which I intend to be short and will probably not be short). I've been playing off and on for I don't even know how many years (started a little while after the last char wipe, so yeah its been like 4, 5 years I guess?), so most of my observations are more long term trends rather than more recent events. I'll put this disclaimer out at the start just so people don't get the wrong idea; I know all the creators are basically volunteers and are not getting paid for anything they do here and that they do all this on their own time and that they do have lives outside this.

A) There has been a real lack of new areas and races introduced. There has been a few new areas that have been put in from time to time but nothing that extensive and nothing that really seems to add to the lore of the game or really gives you much else to do. I know areas take a lot to code, you have the actual room descriptions plus interactions to put in there, but still I would have hoped for some more stuff to have been in by now.

And then races, or I should say the lack of races. I remember reading the little blurb about Ha'alks on the website when I first started playing and wanting to play that race more than any other that was described. Yet, not only have they not been released but no other than the 5 that was in when I started. I have a feeling these two things are related, the races aren't getting released because the racial cities/areas aren't done yet.

B) Lack of things to do. Well maybe I should refine this and say a lack of things to do with the things you can do. Yes you can craft a lot of things but you really can't customize (add extra frills, mix colors, engravings, special weapon handles, etc) too much. This may have to do with a lot of skills in the game being stuck at a certain, fairly low level.

C) More lore is needed. I have a feeling that there is a ton of lore that is at least concieved just not put out there in a usable format yet, what we have in the game is hardly a spoonful of what there is. The more lore that is out there the more people can get into the game's history/goings on and hopefully the better roleplaying that can be done because people will understand how and where to fit in better with their characters.

D) Lack of players has always been a problem. The map is huge and you could go for several days without seeing anyone without even trying that hard to avoid people. I've often spent hours in the cities and never see another soul. If you don't have people to interact with then your enjoyment may not be as much. I think there are three reasons why a lot of people may not stick with the game (in no particular order); the quality of current players they interact with (yes there are some good ones and some not so good ones, if you never meet the good ones then why would you stay), the lack of players to interact with, and after awhile, a lack of new things to do. If you can solve 2 out of 3 of these things then I think the playerbase would develop a bit more. AL doesn't have any graphics to fall back on for the wow factor if things in the game aren't going good so you are left with your imagination of what you want to do and your interactions with other people and what they want to do.

I've always thought AL has a lot of potential, but after each year I worry that that potential is being wasted. It is a credit to former and current creators that have produced what they have that keeps bringing me back in, but inevitably it seems like each time I do I'll play for awhile and see everything is the same ole same ole and then get bored again. I'm not sure what the hold up in development is (and once again I go back to what I said at the top where I know the creators are doing this for free and on their own time), is the approval process slow on new things being put in, are there not enough creators contributing, are the creators that are contributing working together on projects or are they each doing their own thing, or what?

I hate to seem to be coming hard on the creators, thats not my intention if it is seen that way, but really for me it all comes down to what I can do and not do. I can stand not so great players and be patient and hope they will improve over time but it does get frustrating to see a game with so much possible depth to have barely scratched the surface with what it should be.

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27 Dec 2004 12:13 #4434 by khaos
Replied by khaos on topic Re: Meeting
[glb]Took the words outta my mouth.

AL rocks because of the potential, the depth.

That potential just isn't tapped as deep as some might like, myself included.

I've been doing the same things trying to improve myself because I wanted to be a great hunter. Pfft.

Anyways, concerning the player base, solving that problem seems to be as simple as tweaking the game's data and mechanics. People come and check out the game but they stay for the content, people and such.

Uhm, yah. Something else would be to see if there's anyway to improve death, somehow. One, I'd prefer to not have to wait a billion years to get back to roleplaying and building up my character. Sucks in gen'ral.

One way would be to simply allow the person to log-off continue with whatver chores, duties, other things in general that they may have been neglecting and log back on in time to see their character brought back to life. As it is, time only passes half or something (not sure of time-ratio) while not logged on. Not everyone can leave their computer connected to the internet for a couple of hours doing nothing but continuously re-reading the help topics.
Fixing that would rock.[/glb]

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27 Dec 2004 19:40 #4435 by Gabocha
Replied by Gabocha on topic Re: Meeting
Suggestions on "fixing" the game should be sent to the idea board, I believe.

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