Meeting

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20 Dec 2004 18:27 #4416 by kugra
Meeting was created by kugra
A player/creator meeting will be held on the 27th december at 9pm (est). AL has had a lot of issues recently what with player numbers and many, many other problems - hopefully this meeting will act as a way to aid some of these issues. The meeting will be structured to talk about specfic issues, rather than a random rant, so if there is a topic you wish to bring up, please post it here.

I understand this is not the best timing for a public meeting, but I think such an event would be better to happen sooner than later.

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21 Dec 2004 00:05 #4417 by Zaq
Replied by Zaq on topic Re: Meeting
Expectations.

That may seem broad but I believe when everybody is grouped together perhaps some good will come from expressing various view points.

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21 Dec 2004 00:44 #4418 by ignatius
Replied by ignatius on topic Re: Meeting
one thing i would like to discuss is since creator hiring and approval is difficult, perhaps there are things players could do icly to help progress, ie playtesting new features or stats, and also maybe a way for new players to get some training on emoting and some critique on role playing, i know we want to provide a role playing challenge, but if there's too much challenge for someone to start, they are going to try starting somehwere else, and probably stay where they start, and also maybe a mod to the newbie shield, basing when it wears off on something other than just time

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21 Dec 2004 02:56 #4419 by kugra
Replied by kugra on topic Re: Meeting
If you except to have problems attending, feel free to either send me an in game tell, or a message on these forums. It would be a lot more beneficial to get all players opinions, but I know, especially with this date, that won't be an easy task.

Also, thankyou for the topics so far. This meeting will be structured to talk about only topics brought up by players beforehand, so please feel more than free too add more to this thread.

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21 Dec 2004 04:38 #4420 by Virago
Replied by Virago on topic Re: Meeting
I've been requested to rephrase this in terms more obviously related to the upcoming debate. Sure, I can do that.

My suggestion is that it should require fewer hoop-jumpings for appropriately senior staff members to be able to get rid of bad players. The rating system was apparently set in place to help people self-evaluate and improse themselves thusly, but it doesn't seem to be working; note the average IC and OOC ratings, the behavior of the average player (not just yourself and your buds, as we're all convinced we are the best rper evar!!1, I mean the random people you don't know that wander by on the street), that sort of thing.

Good players are put off by bad players. It takes as little as one wrong thing at the wrong time to ruin someone's day, no matter how much else has gone right; compare this to how a single scratch can render a priceless antique worthless to the collector. Does the existence of a single "bad" player mean that the game itself is bad? Obviously not! Many online games are filled with idiots but are still fun and enjoyable in and of themselves (see: Counter-Strike). Unfortunately, in a game as roleplaying-intensive as AL, it's vital that one leaves an established group of known characters and interacts with new people (even if all you do is scream and run away), and if the next four out of five people you meet are complete and utter wastes of bandwidth, one can become upset. There are certainly plenty of good players on AL (I hope, anyway...those ratings are dire), but if the ones who are any fun to interact with keep to themselves and never venture near other people, who's left to influence the newer players?

That's right.

I feel that by enabling the quicker removal of detrimental players, or at least the rehabilitation thereof, the game will improve without adding a single solitary line of code. Presumably the rating system would be used to help monitor this, though I have made my opinions known on said system elsewhere; since it exists, however, I believe that this would make the most of it. One could argue that this is draconian, but my rebuttal is thus: if you're competent, what have you to fear? We have nothing to lose but our chaff. I would be interested in hearing more detailed arguments for or against this during the debate proper.

Slug Hugs (again),

Virago

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21 Dec 2004 06:09 #4421 by Luc
Replied by Luc on topic Re: Meeting
I removed three posts which did not pertain directly to the topic at hand, viz. topics to cover in the future meeting. Please direct criticism of the game not falling into the aforementioned category to the frustrations board, and please restrict objections to others' posts to private messages, at least within the context of this thread.

To summarize: stay on topic, people.

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21 Dec 2004 06:31 #4422 by slayer
Replied by slayer on topic Re: Meeting
If things had been organized properly from the start, there wouldn't be any bad players to deal with. Unfortunately we don't have a time machine, so things have to be fixed now... but this is not Salem, Massachusetts. You don't go around burning people at the stake because you're a closeted pyro. If you want to fix something you certainly don't do it with a sledge hammer. If the players and creators worked together, maybe one day the game will be finished.

Oh wait, mabye I should translate that for you...

The solecisms from days of yore cannot hence be rectified. If said possibility were viable, no disagreeable players would yet subsist. The difficulty can not be ammended by excercising xenophobic tendencies, nor striking it with a blunt instrument. The elucidation of this solution lies in the union of all involved.

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21 Dec 2004 06:31 #4423 by Corannie
Replied by Corannie on topic Re: Meeting
I suppose I came off a bit raw there. I'm sorry for that. Let me rephrase, please.

What we need, I feel, isn’t so much a change of code. Out of all the games I have ever played (and having been a Mudder/musher/mucker for nearly as long as I can remember, I’ve played a LOT of them), AL has the most solid codebase I’ve ever seen in my life. We’ve got a good system on nearly every part, so I think the reason the game is seeing low attendance records right now is not a fault of the code.

I honestly think that it has to do with the quality of players. I have often enjoyed myself in both individual and group RP. Lots of emotes, few socials, fun times, sad times. Emotional times. But in these situations, I have almost always known one of the players from beforehand. Aside from these encounters, my general interactions with people have been less-than-thrilling.

In short, it seems feels like you _have_ to form a clique in order to find enjoyment in the game. This shouldn’t be.

Before worrying about improving the number of players, I’d concern myself with increasing the quality of each player. Good players tend to recruit other good players by word of mouth, rather than through advertisements. And to do this, there are a few possible options.

1) Make Accursed Lands require an application for account. Perhaps a sample of work, a response to some sort of event, or a reason for wanting to play the game. I wouldn’t say you’d have to write a novel in order to get accepted for your account, but some quality assurance wouldn’t hurt.

2) Make the IC/OOC ratings actually DO something. We had, at last, check, a mean average in the negatives on both ends. It might be a good idea to pick a point where something needs to be done (Such as revoking of channel rights at -5 OOC, or temporary removal from the IC world at -5 IC).

3) Clear up some of the red tape involved with banning/kicking/helling/freezing/shrubbing/toading players. It’s not something that anybody enjoys doing, but sometimes, it has to be done.

Again, apologies for my previous post. It was written in haste, and not thought out.

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21 Dec 2004 07:04 #4424 by Zaq
Replied by Zaq on topic Re: Meeting
I believe that the players would benefit better if we weren't so quick to demonize those who have it wrong. Good players stem from experience and we're not going to get anywhere by participating in the adverse.

A good topic for the meeting will have to be on ways to improve and enrich the environment without resorting to elitism.

The playbase will improve when effort is poured in minus the negativity.

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21 Dec 2004 09:02 #4425 by slayer
Replied by slayer on topic Re: Meeting
I think Zaq has a very good point, most of the good players now were hack and slash twinks of the worst kind once. Of course over time they learned to leave that behind and became good roleplayers. If you just obliterate all the twinks now, you don't know what potentially good rpers you'd be getting rid of. If you give the players more to work with in the game, they'll be more inspired to get involved in rping.

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